An Interview with Kylan Mattias de Vries & Carey Jean Sojka

Kylan Mattias de Vries is Professor and Co-chair of Gender, Sexuality, and Women’s Studies at Southern Oregon University. He has a PhD in Sociology from Southern Illinois University—Carbondale. His scholarly interests include inequalities, intersectionality, transgender studies, critical race studies, and social psychology. Dr. de Vries received Southern Oregon University’s Distinguished Teaching Award in 2017 and his work has appeared in the journals Social Science Quarterly, Ethnicities, and Symbolic Interaction and in The Sage Encyclopedia of Trans Studies and the Encyclopedia of Gender and Society.

Carey Jean Sojka is Associate Professor and Co-chair of Gender, Sexuality, and Women’s Studies at Southern Oregon University. She has a PhD in Sociology from the University at Albany (SUNY) and her research and teaching interests include transgender studies, embodiment, gender, sexuality, race, disability, and fat studies. She also conducts community trainings on transgender, lesbian, gay, bisexual, and queer issues in our region. She received Southern Oregon University’s Distinguished Teaching Award in 2020. Dr. Sojka’s work has appeared in the journals Feminist Pedagogy and Women’s Reproductive Health and in the books Trans Bodies, Trans Selves (Oxford University Press), Expanding the Rainbow (Brill), and Introducing the New Sexuality Studies (Routledge).

Their book Transgender Intersections: Race and Gender through Identities, Interactions, and Systems of Power (Polity Press, 2025) documents the ways in which gender transitions can shift not only gender, but also categories of identity such as race, social class, sexuality, and disability.

Carey Jean Sojka & Kylan Mattias de Vries

Ed Battistella: Congratulations on your book, Transgender Intersections, which I enjoyed reading. Can you tell our readers a bit about intersectionality? What is it and why is it important?

Kylan de Vries & Carey Sojka: Thank you so much; we’re glad you enjoyed it! Intersectionality refers to the ways our identities and experiences are interconnected with each other and how systems of power, such as sexism, racism, and so on, are interlocking. The term intersectionality was coined by legal scholar Kimberlé Crenshaw, whose scholarship focuses on the experiences of Black women – people who experience racism and sexism not as separate categories but simultaneously. Her work built from the scholarship and activism of Black, Indigenous, and other women of color, who have been theorizing about intersectionality for decades.

In the case of transgender people, we highlight how trans people’s gendered lives, identities, and experiences are intertwined with other social categories, particularly race, and how these experiences of gender, race, and more, simultaneously interconnect within systems of power.

Ed Battistella: Who is the audience for your book? Scholars, students, trans individuals, families and allies?

Kylan de Vries & Carey Sojka: We want many different audiences to engage with our book. Yes, we hope it will be read by scholars and students, but we also want those in the general public to have this information, too. We hope this will be a resource for many trans people and their loved ones. Also, because it deals with a wide variety of trans experiences, we think it will be valuable to those who provide services to trans people.

Ed Battistella: I appreciated how the book alternated between sociological theory and the voices of your interviewees. In all, how many people did you interview and how did you find them?

Kylan de Vries & Carey Sojka: Thank you. We wanted to make sure that the voices of the research participants were telling their own stories as we also wove their knowledge together with our analysis and other scholarship.

We found participants through a number of methods; we put out calls to various trans networks in different locations, connected through trans conferences and local trans groups, asked people we interviewed to share information about our research (called snowball sampling), and more.

We created this book from three different research projects, and from one of the projects, we also interviewed a group of trans BIPOC people a second time about 15 years after the first set of interviews. I think all in all, we interviewed more than 120 people. While we don’t quote each person in this book, we did use all the interview data and observational data to triangulate our findings. Every experience people shared with us matters to this work.

Ed Battistella: What was the most challenging aspect of the research and the writing of the book?

Kylan de Vries & Carey Sojka: This book was years in the making, so maybe that says something about what is challenging. The challenge was really in deciding where to start. We have such rich information from people who generously shared their experiences with us, and it was tough to decide what to include. I think what made the difference was our collaboration. We brought different lenses to the data and what we found interesting. Our conversations around this really helped shape and organize the final book.

Ed Battistella: What surprised you most about the interview responses? Did you have some hypotheses going in?

Kylan de Vries & Carey Sojka: We are always so appreciative and honored by the openness of our participants in sharing aspects of their lives with us, basically strangers. Many of our participants asked to stay in touch with us and want to know about what we publish from our interviews with them. I think for Kylan, it was reaching out to participants after 15 years and reinterviewing some of them that was such a surprise. What an amazing experience to hear about how their lives had changed over that time!

We used grounded theory for each of the research projects in our book, meaning rather than going in with set hypotheses, we began searching for themes in a more exploratory way. We let the data inform the process, so to speak. For this book, we focused on the what participants had to say around gender and race, honoring their knowledge and expertise about their own lives, and using our skills as researchers to make connections between their different experiences.

Ed Battistella: Overall, what did you discover? Can you share a few key generalizations or observations?

Kylan de Vries & Carey Sojka: Some of the experiences folks shared with us were about how they didn’t realize other trans people had similar experiences, especially because representations of trans lives and experiences can sometimes be limited. For instance, some of the trans BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, and other People of Color) folks we talked with mentioned issues that are not the same for white trans people. Some our BIPOC and white trans participants alike also discussed other intersections that mattered to their lives, like disability or social class.

I think in this current political climate, even globally, trans people’s lives are still too often addressed as if they are more similar than different, that the experiences of trans people are the same. This can happen because the experiences of multiply marginalized trans people are too often ignored or pushed to the side. Our book demonstrates not only that trans experiences are diverse, but that race and other categories are just as essential to understanding trans experience as gender is. We simultaneously highlight how trans lives are influenced by what is happening socially and politically in our world.

Ed Battistella: Thanks for talking with us.

Kylan de Vries & Carey Sojka: Thank you so much!

 

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What I’m Reading, September 2025

Gobsmacked! The British Invasion of American English by Ben Yagoda.

For a time, Ben Yagoda maintained a blog called Not One-Off Britishisms (or NOOB https://notoneoffbritishisms.com/) in which he tracked British usages in the US. In Gobsmacked!, he collected many of these and expanded them into a -chapter book that explore the origins of the words in British English and follows their entry into American English, drawing on the Google Books N-grams viewer. Plus after most NOOBs, he ranks them as merely “On the Radar,” “Emerging,” “Taking Hold,” “Fully Arrived” or “Outpaced” (by US usage). Among other things we learn about are shambolic, naughty bits, whinge, veg, schooner, and poo, as well as pronunciations of aunt and often. Early on, he offers some thoughts on why the pace of British to US English has been accelerating (the internet plays a role as does snobbery). Gobsmacked! is a splendid read and one that can be savored in small bits by language aficionados and professional linguists.

Play It Again Sam: Repetition in the Arts by Samuel Jay Keyser

The legendary Samuel Jay Keyser (linguist, author, administrator, jazz musician) offers a tour de force of the role of repetition in the arts. Drawing on research showing that repletion is both pleasurable, evolutionarily useful, and protean.

While most of us would have a hard time writing knowledgably about any one art, Keyser offers fourteen chapters covering literature, music and art. He begins by recounting some experiments by Princeton psychologist Elizabeth Hellmuth Margulis, whose work has show that listeners prefer music with repeated melodies. Next he turns to the notion of repetition in traditional English poetry, drawing in the relevant linguistic concepts seamlessly, then looking at musical rhymes and the role of repletion in such verbal forms as idioms, jokes, and fairy tales. The rule of three is illustrated along with poetic meter, oral formulaic poetry, biblical parallelism, and jazz figure. In the penultimate chapter, Keyser turns to repetition in the visual arts (painting and photography, analyzing paintings by Andy Warhol and by Gustave Caillebotte) as well as photographs by Lee Friedlander, Roni Horn, and Ormond Gigli. He wraps things up with a repetition of the key points are a quartet of Ps: Parallelism, Priming, Prediction, and Pleasure.

Keyser’s brisk exposition and lucid analysis has provoked me to look for an think about the role of repetition in all manner of things. A definite must read, and (as I learned belatedly), it’s available free as an open source book: https://direct.mit.edu/books/oa-monograph/5985/Play-It-Again-SamRepetition-in-the-Arts

Amity: A Novel by Nathan Harris

Nathan Harris follows up his The Sweetness of Water with a gripping story of two siblings, Coleman and June. It starts in New Orleans in 1866, with the sensitive, bookish Coleman and steely June, are former slaves still in the employ, so to speak, of their former owners Wyatt and

Wyatt cannot is nearly destitute so he heads off to Mexico in search of a silver mine, taking June along. Eventually Harper writes for the Coleman to come along and the imperious Mrs. Harper his wife and spoiled daughter Florence go as well booking passage on a steamboat. Over the course of the journey, Coleman is changed by a shipwreck, a kidnapping, and more, and he and June, who has endured both Wyatt Harper and the desert before finding love with a named Isaac, a black Seminole are reunited in the community Amity.

Amity is an adventure story, lushly scenic, , but also a story of race and racisms, power and corruption, survival and love.

 

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What I’m Reading August 2025

I’m a bit late this month!

Red Hook and Londongrad by Reggie Nadelson

These are part of a series featuring Artie Cohen, a noirish New York police detective whose father was a KGB officer. The series explore the Russian communities in New York and elsewhere. I’m reading them way out of order but am looking forward to the other seven books.

 

How compassion works: A step-by-step guide to cultivating well-being, love, and wisdom by John Makransky and Paul Condon

A readable guide to compassion practice and psychological theory, How Compassion Works focuses on three styles of meditation: connecting with caring moments, recognizing the role of care in our lives, and expanding our thinking to adopt a stance of compassion toward others. The authors connect their practice to psychological theory as well as religious practice and other practice exercises. Read it slowly to get the most from the book.

Transgender Intersections: Race and Gender through Identities, Interactions, and Systems of Power by Carey Jean Sojka and Kylan Mattias de Vries.

A readable sociological study documenting the ways in which the gender transition experience can shifts not only gender, but also categories of identity such as race, social class, sexuality, and disability. The book combines theory (intersectionality, hypervisibility, etc.) with the voices of transgender individuals reflecting on the ways in which their identities were perceived. An enlightening and accessible book. Perhaps future edition should include a glossary.

Lethal Prey by John Sanford

I’ve read all the prey novels and the Virgil Flowers and Letty Davenport books as well. This latest book, featuring Davenport and Flowers working a twenty-year cold case. This one has the usual realism and quirky characters, the mostly infallible detectives, and it makes use of an unusual motif: true crime bloggers. Plus there is a cliffhanger ending setting up a future story.

The Moonpool by P T Deutermann

A selection for by book group, featuring private detectives who get pulled into investigating a security lapse at a nuclear power plant when one of their colleagues ends up killed from radiation poisoning. It was kind of implausible and kitchen-sinky, but the engaging characters (and dogs) and fast pace made the story work. I’ll read Deutermann again.

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An Interview with Paul Condon

Paul Condon

Paul Condon is an associate professor of psychology at Southern Oregon University. He has a PhD from Northeastern University. He has served as a visiting lecturer for the Centre for Buddhist Studies at Rangjung Yeshe Institute, and is a fellow of the Mind & Life Institute. His research examines the relational basis for empathy, compassion, and wellbeing, along with the influence of compassion and mindfulness training on those capacities.

His writing and teaching also explore the use of diverse scientific theories in dialogue with contemplative traditions, and his publications have appeared in such journals as Philosophy East & West, Mindfulness, Perspectives on Psychological Science, and Current Opinion in Psychology.

His recently published book is How Compassion Works: A Step-by-step Guide to Cultivating Well-being, Love, and Wisdom, co-authored with John Makransky and published by Shambala Press.

Ed Battistella: How did the idea for the book come about?

Paul Condon: John and I had been working together to explore correlations between compassion practice and psychological theory—through collaborative academic writing and in our conversations about meditation experience. Our first writing project was a journal article that introduced meditation as a relational practice, through the lens of attachment theory and other psychological perspectives. In that view, humans need to experience care and social support for optimal well-being. We extended this perspective to compassion training as well—we first need to experience what it is like to be a recipient of care to be able to extend inclusive and sustainable care to others. Over the course of that work, we realized that drawing on science to enhance understanding of meditation experience was a new direction of thought. The book grew from these collaborative threads, as well as several colleagues and meditation practitioners who shared their experiences with us over many years.

EB: In just a few words, can you tell our readers what the Sustainable Compassion Training model is?

PC: SCT involves three styles or modes of meditation. The first focuses on connecting with caring moments or benefactors so we can experience what it is like to be a recipient of care. That mode of practice helps to draw out our natural capacity for compassion and wisdom, which leads into the second mode, which is to recognize and stabilize in the sense that care and compassion are fundamental capacities of our being. Finally, those embodied qualities become the basis for the third mode: including others and the world in a stance of love and compassion.

EB: One of the things that impressed me most was your bringing together of Buddhist practice, cognitive science, and attachment theory. How did these three intellectual traditions come together for you?

PC: My academic journey has benefited from studying with various scholars across these different traditions—dating back to my days as an undergraduate. These scholars all modeled appreciation for transdisciplinary thinking. As I spent more time in meditation retreat, various connections between Buddhist contemplative experience and psychology occurred. For example, during one retreat, we engaged in practices of extending care to others. I noticed that it felt like that made the qualities of care, joy, and peace feel stronger. In that moment, I remembered a research study in which people who shared a chocolate bar together enjoyed the chocolate more and had a greater memory of the experience than if they had the chocolate bar alone. In a similar way, including others within our own capacity for joy, peace, and well-being amplifies those qualities. It felt natural to me that scientific theories could help enhance meditative experience.

EB: You also emphasize that the practices you describe have analogs in other traditions than Buddhism. What will secular readers or readers of other faiths take away from How Compassion Works?

PC: We invite people to draw on their own life experience and traditions to fill in the contents of the meditations. In the benefactor practice, a person could draw on caring memories from their life, a spiritual benefactor from their tradition, a moment with a pet, a place in nature, or even a proud or happy memory engaging in a favorite hobby or sport. The possibilities are endless. In our teaching, our first goal is to help people find such resources from their life that already exist. One of the most rewarding experiences as a teacher occurs when students rediscover these resources from their own life, but now imbued with a new interpretative framework of great significance.

EB: I’ve been reading How Compassion Works in small bites, as you suggested in the introduction. And I appreciated the periodic illustrative anecdotes. Do you think that slow reading can itself be a kind of meditation?

PC: Yes! According to grounded cognition, we are always simulating experiences through multiple modalities in the brain—for vision, muscle movement, smell, sound, etc. The benefactor practice draws on this natural capacity as well, to simulate experience of care from our past so as to relive them in the present throughout the body. This is happening while reading, too. Some fascinating research has shown that reading fiction in particular can help increase empathy because it involves simulating the experiences of diverse others. Fictional characters can also serve as benefactors by helping to work out various dilemmas or difficulties we might be facing. They can help us to be seen through their experience and inspire us in our own journeys. I recently read John Ciardi’s translation of Dante’s Inferno and found that experience to be deeply inspiring for contemplations of suffering and navigating challenges in our world.

EB: Is there a compassion deficit and compassion fatigue in modern society? As a psychologist, how do you measure compassion?

PC: Yes and no. There are obvious societal challenges that interfere with compassion. At the same time, the SCT model is based on a Tibetan Buddhist tradition called dzogchen, which emphasizes effortlessness. Compassion comes naturally and effortlessly when we are in contact with someone we like, or when we feel well-resourced. But when we experience various difficulties, such as stress, trauma, a lack of safety, or repeated exposure to others’ suffering, we shut off our emotional response and connection, which inhibits compassion. This ebbs and flows for all of us. People can access qualities of compassion with a sense of immediacy and effortlessness. We can look for the resources (including people and activities) in our life that give us a sense of safety, nourishment, and well-being and invest more of our attention and time into those resources to support ourselves and others. The more we pay attention to these experiences, the easier it will be to notice them and experience compassion for ourselves and others more effortlessly.

I’ve been impressed with a measurement called the Empathy Selection Task (developed by our colleague Daryl Cameron). In that task, people are asked to choose to feel what another is feeling or to describe another’s characteristics. This is a contrast between empathy and a more distant engagement with another person. People typically choose empathy, but report that it is effortful and demanding, and then switch to the describe strategy. If we can help people to feel repeatedly nourished, it might help them to sustain the empathic choice for longer, which could have many obvious benefits for professionals in healthcare, education, and all of us in our personal relationships. There are several other creative tools for assessing empathic and compassionate action, such as eye-tracking visual attention on scenes of suffering, offering a chair to someone on crutches in a waiting room, or intervening to include another in a virtual social interaction.

EB: Thanks for talking with us. Where can readers find your book?

PC: Thank you, Ed! The book is distributed by Penguin Random House and available through the major online retailers. For local readers in Southern Oregon, it’s also available at Bloomsbury Books.

 

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